Glenn Gow, The Scaling Executive Coach and host of The Scaling Executive Podcast, talks with Kevin Hohe, CEO of Complete Fence, about the leadership shift from hands-on operator to strategic leader in a labor-intensive, blue-collar business.
This episode is for CEOs in trades, construction, or service-based businesses who need to protect culture and retain frontline workers while scaling past founder-led operations.
Key Takeaways
- When a CEO steps back from being the top individual contributor, the hardest transition is releasing ownership of personal output (sales numbers, direct execution) in favor of setting conditions for others to perform.
- Hohe’s core hiring rule at Complete Fence: values determine who stays. A top-performing salesperson who violates culture gets removed regardless of revenue contribution, because protecting culture matters more than protecting a single number.
- Tolerance for being misunderstood, developed over roughly two years in a peer advisory group where Hohe felt consistently out of step with more traditionally “successful” CEOs, became the foundation that let him lead authentically instead of chasing others’ approval.
- Complete Fence treats AI as a tool to extend the working lives and productivity of existing employees, not to eliminate roles, reflecting Hohe’s “people-first” operating philosophy publicly stated in his final guidance memo before transitioning to chairman.
- Nearly quitting the business five to ten times, Hohe attributes his persistence to refusing to treat quitting as anything other than failure, tied directly to his belief in the company’s founding vision.
How Do You Let Go of Being the Top Performer When You Become CEO?
Complete Fence CEO Kevin Hohe says the hardest part of moving from doing the work to leading the organization was releasing his own sales numbers and direct contributions in favor of building conditions for his team to perform instead. Hohe named this as the central tension nearly two decades into his tenure at Complete Fence, where he moved from sales to General Manager, Partner, and finally CEO in 2020.
He linked this difficulty to a broader pattern in how people measure their own worth. “We anchor our worth to our contribution and sometimes how much it hurts,” Hohe said. For Hohe personally, the shift meant no longer treating his own sales figures as the primary marker of a productive day, and instead accepting that his job was to create the conditions for others to produce results he was no longer generating himself.
Hohe also pointed to a trap he sees in younger entrepreneurs specifically: the belief that no one else can execute the work as well as they can. That belief, left unchecked, blocks the delegation required to scale. “They think that nobody can do it better than them,” he said. “That’s not true. And they’ve got to let others try.”
Why Tolerance for Being Misunderstood Is a Prerequisite for Scaling Leadership
Hohe built his capacity to lead through sustained discomfort by spending roughly two years in a peer advisory group where more established CEOs consistently failed to understand his approach, until he stopped needing their validation to move forward. He described this tolerance as one of the more consequential shifts in his development as a leader, directly connected to his ability to make unconventional decisions without waiting for outside approval.
Hohe traced the more common failure mode to fear. “We lead with fear, which comes out as anger,” he said, describing how CEOs who over-index on managing others’ perceptions become reluctant to act. In his own advisory group, Hohe found himself surrounded by people who outranked him professionally and consistently misread his intentions, which initially frustrated him.
The turning point came roughly two years in, when Hohe recognized the disconnect wasn’t something he could fix by explaining himself differently. “They just don’t understand,” he said, describing the realization. “I didn’t know that they didn’t understand me.” That recognition let him stop performing for an audience that wasn’t going to get it, and start operating from his own read of the business. “If your audience is gonna view me negatively because I got a mess in my background, it’s like, I’m not afraid of their opinion of me,” he said.
How Do You Protect Culture When a Top Performer Violates Your Values?
At Complete Fence, Hohe enforces a hard rule: employees are hired, fired, and promoted based on fit with company values, and that rule applies even to high-performing salespeople whose numbers are strong. Hohe described facing this exact scenario twice in the company’s history, removing top-performing but toxic salespeople despite the revenue risk.
“The classic example: you got a really awesome salesman, his numbers are super high, but he’s an a-hole,” Hohe said. “It’s not hard for me to make that call. I know I can find somebody else that can turn those numbers.” Complete Fence runs on the EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System) framework, which Hohe credits with making values-based decisions structurally consistent rather than case-by-case judgment calls.
The first time Hohe faced this decision, the outcome was contested: he polled friends and advisors and got a split verdict, two in favor of removal and two against. He removed the employee anyway. The second time the situation arose, Hohe said the decision came faster and with more confidence. “It’s very easy once you get it right to get it right,” he said, describing how the first difficult call made the second one procedural rather than agonizing.
This values-first hiring standard extends to how Hohe evaluates every role at the company, not just sales. “I mean it when I say that the floor sweeper is as important as I or the CEO is,” he said, describing the operating principle behind Complete Fence’s culture as an installer-first company where profit exists to support the people doing the work, not the reverse.
How Should CEOs Use AI Without Undermining a People-First Culture?
Hohe’s AI policy at Complete Fence, issued as his final guidance before moving to the board chairman role, commits the company to using AI to extend and improve existing jobs rather than eliminate headcount. He frames this explicitly as augmentation for a physically demanding trade, not replacement.
“We are going to use AI in order to optimize the people that work for us, not to delete them,” Hohe said. His reasoning ties directly to the physical toll of fence installation work: if AI tools can reduce strain on installers’ bodies, workers who might only sustain 15 years of physical labor could instead work 20. “I don’t want to remove roles,” he said. “So we’ll just grow into it.”
At the same time, Hohe has already deployed AI in customer-facing operations, including an AI system that answers incoming phone calls, a decision he frames as pragmatic rather than contradictory to his people-first stance. He expects AI to make Complete Fence’s service delivery faster and more efficient for customers while reserving skilled trade labor for people. “I’m pro human, pro human AI,” he said. “I wear an anti-dumb shirt and a pro human.”
What This Means for Scaling CEOs
| Principle | What it means in practice | Named evidence from this interview |
| Letting go of individual output is the real transition to CEO | Scaling requires releasing your own performance metrics in favor of building conditions for others to perform | Hohe’s identity shift after moving from sales to GM, Partner, and CEO over nearly 18 years at Complete Fence, culminating in stepping back to chairman |
| Values-based firing decisions protect culture even at revenue cost | A CEO must be willing to remove a high-performing employee whose behavior violates culture, regardless of their numbers | Hohe removed two top-performing but toxic salespeople despite a split vote from his own advisors on the first decision |
| Tolerance for being misunderstood enables authentic decision-making | Leaders who stop chasing peer approval can act on their own read of the business instead of waiting for consensus | Hohe’s two years in a peer advisory group where more senior CEOs consistently misunderstood his approach, before he stopped needing their validation |
| AI adoption can extend human roles instead of eliminating them | CEOs in physically demanding industries can frame AI as reducing strain on workers rather than replacing them | Hohe’s people-first AI guidance memo, aimed at extending installers’ working years from roughly 15 to 20 by reducing physical strain |
Quotes from This Episode
- “We anchor our worth to our contribution and sometimes how much it hurts.” — Kevin Hohe, CEO, Complete Fence
- “They just don’t understand. I didn’t know that they didn’t understand me.” — Kevin Hohe, CEO, Complete Fence
- “You got a really awesome salesman, his numbers are super high, but he’s an a-hole. It’s not hard for me to make that call.” — Kevin Hohe, CEO, Complete Fence
- “We are going to use AI in order to optimize the people that work for us, not to delete them.” — Kevin Hohe, CEO, Complete Fence
- “I’m pro human, pro human AI. I wear an anti-dumb shirt and a pro human.” — Kevin Hohe, CEO, Complete Fence
Frequently Asked Questions
How do you know when to fire a high-performing employee for culture reasons?
Kevin Hohe’s approach at Complete Fence is to prioritize values fit over revenue performance, removing employees whose behavior conflicts with company culture even when their numbers are strong. He treats this as a repeatable decision once a CEO has made the call once, noting it becomes easier to identify and act on the second time.
Should a scaling CEO use AI to reduce headcount?
Hohe’s position, formalized as company policy at Complete Fence, is that AI should optimize and extend existing employees’ work rather than eliminate their roles. He applies this specifically to reduce physical strain on tradespeople, framing AI adoption as compatible with a people-first culture rather than a threat to it.
How do you build a strong culture in a blue-collar or trades business?
Hohe attributes Complete Fence’s culture to treating every role, including entry-level positions, as equally important to the CEO role, combined with a strict values-based standard for who gets hired, fired, and promoted. He describes this as something that must be lived consistently over years rather than declared once, noting it took roughly six years for employees to trust that his stated values matched his actions.
Executives Work with Glenn Gow to Scale Their Companies and Careers
Glenn Gow is The Scaling Executive Coach — he coaches ambitious executives into the CEO seat and CEOs into successful exits. With 25 years as a CEO and 5 years in venture capital, Glenn helps leaders scale their companies by scaling themselves first. If this conversation was useful, you can apply for executive coaching with Glenn Gow or apply to be a guest on The Scaling Executive Podcast.
